Become a member of Writersco
What is Writersco?

Page name: ABC [Logged in view] [RSS]

2008-03-26 17:29:28

Last author: Kiddalee
Owner: iippo

# of watchers: 12

Fans: 0

D20: 2

Wiki-page rating	Stumble!
Informative:	0
Artistic:	0
Funny-rating:	0
Friendly:	0

ABC

Welcome to
A Book Chat
(yes I'm a sucker for fancy acronyms)

This is basically your regular book group, where people like you and me will gather around a topic with their precious tomes under one arm, a cup of coffee and bisquits in hand, prepared for an infinity of time to discuss their lives in literature.

The discussions will take place in forums because we all won't be online at the same time, and someone is bound to say something I want to reply to when I'm offline, so I want the opportunity to reply on that topic without disrupting the flow of the current conversation, and that is possible in the WC-forums. The discussion will later be transcribed into the wiki in a sensible format for the future generations to awe at.

Small notice: Your choice of literature doesn't have to be a novel. It can be short stories or just one short story. It can be poetry (but preferably not just one poem :S), it can be a play or even a comic (although if that's the case you might have to scan in your passages). Anything literature, and hopefully in one edition/book, preferably by one author, although short story compilations around a topic are ok too.

The topic
The first ever discussion's topic will be:

Wrong Is Right

I want you to find a book or passages (that's a plural so at least two) from a book in which the hero does things or acts in a way that you consider morally wrong. The act should be described from the wrong-doers point of view.
It can be anything you consider morally wrong, even if some people might not. Don't worry about being politically correct, nor fear about someone shunning you for expressing your thoughts.
If you have troubles, have a look at I don't know what book to use.

Possible passages (describing)
-the act itself
-memory of the act
-recounting the act to someone else
-regretting the act

-someone else's view about the act (this shouldn't be the only passage, since we want the wrong-doers point of view)

Here's a few things to think about when reading or preparing for the discussion:
-Was it easy or difficult to feel for the character?
-Were you appalled? Either by the act or by yourself feeling for the character, understanding his reason to do the act?
-What circumstances lead to the act?
-How is the act justified by the wrong-doer?
-Does the wrong-doer question himself before, during or after the act?
-Was the act done with intent? If not, does the wrong-doer hold himself guilty?

If you don't have access to an English copy of your book, try http://www.literaturepage.com/read/
And if the site doesn't have it, feel free to request any English-speaking member/member in an English-speaking country to find the passages from the book for you. You may also translate the passages yourself if it comes down to that.

Participants
Put down your username, the book you are going to use and briefly what it is about, and a note if you are prepared for the discussion already or not. (By prepared I mean you have written down the passages you will give us. There might be some waiting for everyone to be prepared, during which you might end up having to return the book to library or something - have the passages typed in to your blog or in a hidden wiki or something, so you can just copy-paste when it's discussion-time)

1. [iippo]
Flowers in the Attic by Virginia Andrews

It's (a fact-based) story of four children whose mother hides them in the attic of an old house to be able to inherit her rich father.

Prepared.

2. [RiddleRose]
Into the Woods

This is a musical that combines the fairy tales of Cinderella, Little Red Riding Hood, Rapunzel, Jack and the Beanstalk, Sleeping Beauty, and Snow White. In the first act the fairy tales go pretty much like they do in the original stories, with only the addition of two new characters, the Baker and his Wife, who want ot have a child, but have curse laid upon them by the Witch from Rapunzel that they can't. The story is their search for the items to make a potion that will allow the Witch to lift the curse.
However, it is revealed that the Witch really loves Rapunzel as her own daughter, and has imprisoned her for her own protection. At the end of the first act, everyone is happy except for the Witch and Cinderella's Ugly Stepsisters.
However, in the second act, everything changes. The Giant's Wife from Jack and the Beanstalk comes down the second beanstalk to take revenge upon Jack for her husband's death. The Witch, who has lost all of her powers in exchange for her former beauty, cannot help them. Many people die, including the Narrator, Jack's Mother, Little Red's Granny and Mother, and (after an adulterous affair in the woods with Cinderella's prince) the Baker's Wife. Rapunzel has twins at age fourteen and then dies as well, and everyone is unhappy. It is brought to the question of who's fault all of this is, and everyone still alive ends up blaming the Witch. She, who merely wanted to be left alone with her garden and Rapunzel her daughter, sings an amazing song called "Last Midnight", in which she leaves them to their fate, bitter and alone.
Cinderella leaves her fickle Prince, the Baker attempts to raise his son on his own, and everyone wonders who was really right and who was really wrong. Little Red and Jack come live with the Baker and Cinderella, since all of their relations were killed.

not prepared yet.

3. [Delladreing]
The Perks of Being a Wallflower by Stephen Chbosky.

It is an epistolary novel written in form of letters to an anonymous "friend" i.e. the reader; written by the narrator, known only as Charlie. We never find out his real name. It's a story about growing up, but from the viewpoint of a "wallflower". It delves into the ideas of teenage sexuality, abortion, homosexuality, paedophilia, depression, drugs, literature, and film. There are many highs in the book, like the moment when Charlie realises his infinity and other instances when he plays Rocky in The Rocky Horror Picture Show. But the lows are incredible and heartbreaking. The idea of rape which Charlie is exposed to from an early age, which later go on to mar his relationships, the knowledge of molestation and the abuse suffered by his sister via her violent boyfriend which leads to a forced abortion. All of it eventaully leads to one giant mental breakdown for the boy called Charlie which is only resolved after hospitalisation but still manages to end on an optimistic and trusting note.

Not prepared fully yet.

4. [Veltzeh]
The Outsider by Albert Camus
The book starts when Meursault receives news that his mother has died. He buries his mother, has some fun with his friends and kills an arab. He's then imprisoned. In the second part of the book he just sits around in the prison, is judged and then sentenced to death.
Prepared!

5. [Anninja]
The Outsider by Albert Camus
This book needs double care and attention, as for this topic. It's perfect for it.
Not prepared fully yet.

Back to the BBC

2006-05-01 [SilverFire]: appalled. Not 'appauled' :P

2006-05-02 [RiddleRose]: fixed. ^_^

2006-05-02 [iippo]: Feel free to fix typos when met. // Can you read a musical? o.O Is there actually books of musical scripts? *wants*

2006-05-02 [RiddleRose]: yesh... i think there are. and you can always get the scores, which include the lyrics. and it's not hard to get scripts...

2006-05-03 [iippo]: I'm not sure but I think I once did see Jesus Christ Superstar as a book... But that's all singing and no words (does that still count as a musical? Sounds more like... opera or something XD) Well, I think it'll pass, a written musical (although I suppose having seen it performed would help in interpretation/understanding... hmm...)

2006-05-04 [RiddleRose]: well... i've seen this one, and i've got the soundtrack... and i know many people who have the script. XD and i'm sure you could find it online...

2006-05-04 [iippo]: Only one more thing to consider: does it fit the theme? :P I say go for it if you wish. :) Be the first one to *gasp* actually have the literature chosen and ready.

2006-05-06 [RiddleRose]: it certainly addresses the theme... in fact, yes, i think it does fit the theme. ^_^

2006-05-06 [RiddleRose]: there you go! you should see it. it's an amazing play...

2006-05-20 [Kiddalee]: Never mind that comment (mine). It was silly.

2006-06-19 [Delladreing]: *haunts the [iippo]* Rawr :D

2006-06-19 [Delladreing]: and the Silvie >.>

2006-06-19 [iippo]: *expects t3h dela to join* And silvie, too. And kidda too o.O

2006-06-19 [Delladreing]: fair enough sign me up :P, or rather I'll sign up as soon as I'm done w/ my profil update.

2006-06-19 [Delladreing]: Ok I'm ready for anything now all I need to do is find a book o.O

2006-06-19 [Veltzeh]: I can't recall any situation in which the character would've done something I'd consider morally wrong, dangit! XD There are several cases where the character has done something disturbingly illogical though, but I have trouble recalling even those. o_o

2006-06-19 [Delladreing]: Heh, happens, time to reread things ;)

2006-06-19 [Veltzeh]: Yeah, I did most of my reading before the age of 17. >_> But seriously, I didn't even consider Raskolnikov murdering the old woman in Crime and Punishment morally wrong! XD

2006-06-19 [Delladreing]: Oh dear, remind me to avoid you when I'm a mad old lady XP

2006-06-19 [Veltzeh]: XD I'm currently pondering whether or not I would consider Meursault's killing the Arab in The stranger immoral or not... I can totally understand the situation though and accept it. I'm weird, aren't I?

2006-06-19 [Calliope]: That's my problem, I can just about always see where the 'immoral' people are coming from. It makes it hard for me to call it immoral when I see it from their perspectives.

2006-06-19 [Delladreing]: Heh, see mine I can argue with fairly well.

2006-06-19 [Kiddalee]: The Stranger... is that the one by Camus? And [iippo], if things keep going at this rate, maybe you won't have to start without me, since exams will be over next Monday.

2006-06-20 [Veltzeh]: Yep, it's by Camus. It was the only book whose issues I could get while my classmates didn't (we read it for school). X)

2006-06-20 [Veltzeh]: I'm going to put the book there. The only issue is that there isn't an English copy of it in the library so I can't quote it... unless I get the Finnish one and translate it into English. Is it okay to do that or would someone who lives in an English-speaking country get the quote for me? X)

2006-06-20 [iippo]: You can have a look if you can find it in here http://www.literaturepage.com/read/ (forgot to put this link on the page, sorry *edits*). Also it would be quite interesting to have a book where the act is morally wrong but the reader doesn't think so (because of the way it is presented?)

2006-06-20 [Veltzeh]: Dang, can't find it there. But hey, there are no absolute truths; the morality of something is completely subjective and I don't consider murder morally wrong in some cases. X)

2006-06-20 [iippo]: Is this it? http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&d=6006929

2006-06-20 [RiddleRose]: whee! i'm no longer alone!

2006-06-20 [Kiddalee]: I've only heard someone's book report on it, but it doesn't sound to me like that was even murder. Didn't he take the gun away from his trigger happy friend to prevent deaths, and squeeze the trigger only because the sun was unbearable?

2006-06-20 [Veltzeh]: Yep, [iippo], that's it, but it doesn't show me enough... [Kiddalee], yeah, I can't recall the scene too well either, that's why I've been pondering. The person who he killed had been about to harm someone before at least and it might've been a little self-defensive... That's why I need to reread it. XD

2006-06-21 [Kiddalee]: Yes, they were about to harm his friend.

2006-06-21 [Kiddalee]: Oh, I've found the handout for the classmate's ISU. In English it's called The Outsider.

2006-06-21 [Veltzeh]: It's either Outsider or Stranger...

2006-08-18 [iippo]: It's been awful quiet here lately, how is everybody? Any luck with that book Vel, or are you ending up translating yourself? How about you Kidda and Calliope, have you found any book that you might want to use? Dela, RiddleRose, still patient with the rest of us? :D And the 4 watchers I'm not mentioning by name, how are you doing?

2006-08-18 [Veltzeh]: Well, there still isn't an English copy of it in the library so unless someone else can get it, I'll translate it myself.

2006-08-18 [Calliope]: I've been swamped lately but my eyes are still out. Maybe when I start packing my books I'll find one I forgot about that'll fit the category.

2006-08-24 [Veltzeh]: That "almost prepared" means that I'm deploying child labor to translate the piece of text into English. Maybe I should also add the point about how Meursault is then wrongly executed by the society because THAT I think is wrong. XD It's just that there's no clear passage of just that.

2006-08-25 [Kiddalee]: I'm... lazy.

2006-08-26 [iippo]: Great! I mean, not 'great' at Kidda's lazyness, but at Vel's preparedness.

2007-02-16 [Anninja]: Veltzeh, it was exactly the book I was thinking of adding all the time I read through the page! I have the Latvian version of it, perhaps I might be of a little help translating?
For me, there wasn't a single doubt during the whole book that I'd not do as he did. Not now, I'd rather not dare say "not ever". In my opinion, what he did all the time was terrible and unhuman, rather beastlike. I think it's named "The Outsider" just to show us what people are not like. Should not be. I have some truly good quotes to prove that :) But I'll have to translate them.

2007-02-16 [Anninja]: I will add it :)

2007-02-17 [Veltzeh]: Hmm... and my opinions are pretty much the opposite. X) Meursault concerns himself with the essential and doesn't bother with the rest. And I find myself remarkably similar... but it's not like I've ever thought of myself as a real person. Even other people tend to call me a machine.
Anyway, Text passages is where the part is.

2007-02-20 [Anninja]: Lol, in my opinion what's essential to being human is to have feelings other than the physical, that's what beasts don't have. That's what the Outsider doesn't have. The answer "I don't know, but I think I don't, does it matter?" to "do you love me?" was creepy, and proof enough that he didn't have feelings for a person at all (it wasn't the only passage that proves it). I didn't translate exactly, wrote it from memory... But I'm a musician, and my folks are weird people, sometimes I think we're of different species even :)

2007-02-20 [Veltzeh]: Heh, and I thought that was one of the best ever responses to that question which I think is irrelevant. XD But hey, we should save that for the actual chat! Dang, we're about to start already on our own here.

2007-03-01 [Anninja]: Come on, does it look like there's going to be an actual chat? ;)

2007-03-02 [iippo]: Three out of the five participants say they are 'not prepared yet', one says 'prepared' and one hasn't indicated very clearly either way so I count it as a 'maybe' *pokes* :P

2007-03-03 [Anninja]: Okay, you happy? :) I really want to take part in this discussion, but don't want to spend my time preparing for something that might never actually happen. I translate fast. And how am I supposed to know which passages I might use? Okay, maybe I'll do a bit... When I have more than a few minutes of spare time, which I maybe soon will... :P

2007-03-03 [iippo]: ^^;; Things do go slowly in WritersCo... But it tends to be that when you start prodding people, they tend to back out instead of get into shape :/
There's some general suggestion which passages to use:
Possible passages (describing)
-the act itself
-memory of the act
-recounting the act to someone else
-regretting the act
-someone else's view about the act (this shouldn't be the only passage, since we want the wrong-doers point of view)

2007-03-04 [Anninja]: Okay, got it. Still, all the book's quotable. There was hardly anything he did right, I think. Okay, I don't mean to argue. And yea, authors tend to be slow... Quite... Me being one of the worst ^·^

2007-04-23 [SilverFire]: Hmmm... *considers Blakes's Marriage of Heaven & Hell* Just going form the title 'wrong is right' it's perfect, but the details about what to think about in preparation are mostly (if not all) redundant to that book.

2007-04-24 [RiddleRose]: i'm still around and watching, just to let everyone know... and although i don't have things written down specifically, i know what i could use... so i suppose i am semi-prepared

2007-04-25 [Anninja]: Yep, me the same as RiddleRose;) I hardly have the time to write anything... I have had 2 unfinished short stories for almost a month;P

2007-04-25 [iippo]: So everyone up on the list is a little bit prepared already? I'm gonna start building the forum and stuff soonish then. :) Sorry it's stretching til eternity, kids. :S

2007-05-02 [Anninja]: It's okay, iippo, we are not mad ;)

2008-01-07 [Kiddalee]: Not that I've been planning on it, but I've just completed a book that should be suitable.

2008-01-12 [iippo]: :) Maybe we should just start and people can jump in late if they want to.

2008-01-15 [Kiddalee]: I like that idea. It's not like you'll get to everybody on the first day anyways.

Number of comments: 58
Older comments: (Last 200) 2 1 .0.

Show these comments on your site